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[quote=samnooshka;16559]
Not my recent work
all of the rally stuff that i do isn't photoshopped... if it is its usually because its an effect i am after, or to tidy up a muddy face. My portrait stuff is mainly clearing up spots and stuff as i mentioned earlier... and no camera can be so good as to make a portrait have flawless skin 
You're contradicting yourself here Sam. " All of the rally stuff I do isn't photoshopped"...but then you go on to tell us that you do indeed edit them with photoshop. Even in your photoshop free "portrait stuff" you are clearing up spots and blemishes.
This isn't aimed at you Sam...but you can't have it both ways people! You can't come out and say that you only ever use images straight from camera, and in the same breath say..oh yes, and I've airbrushed out that spot, or I didn't like that pylon in my landscape so I've removed it, or I've sharpened this one, and blurred that one. I've de-saturated this one for a nice effect and I've added a bit more colour on that one to give it depth!
For all the PP haters out there...GET USED TO IT ! Editing photographs is now as common place as taking them, and quite often an enhanced image will stand up better when compared alongside the original.
If you don't want to edit your stuff...that's ok! If you do, then that's ok too.
Just please don't think that because you know how to work a camera, then that makes you a photographer! And on the flip-side of that coin...please don't think that because someone else likes to edit their photographs, they're not a photographer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandé Daguerre
Not my recent work
all of the rally stuff that i do isn't photoshopped... if it is its usually because its an effect i am after, or to tidy up a muddy face. My portrait stuff is mainly clearing up spots and stuff as i mentioned earlier... and no camera can be so good as to make a portrait have flawless skin You're contradicting yourself here Sam. " All of the rally stuff I do isn't photoshopped"...but then you go on to tell us that you do indeed edit them with photoshop. Even in your photoshop free "portrait stuff" you are clearing up spots and blemishes.
This isn't aimed at you Sam...but you can't have it both ways people! You can't come out and say that you only ever use images straight from camera, and in the same breath say..oh yes, and I've airbrushed out that spot, or I didn't like that pylon in my landscape so I've removed it, or I've sharpened this one, and blurred that one. I've de-saturated this one for a nice effect and I've added a bit more colour on that one to give it depth!
For all the PP haters out there...GET USED TO IT ! Editing photographs is now as common place as taking them, and quite often an enhanced image will stand up better when compared alongside the original.
If you don't want to edit your stuff...that's ok! If you do, then that's ok too.
Just please don't think that because you know how to work a camera, then that makes you a photographer! And on the flip-side of that coin...please don't think that because someone else likes to edit their photographs, they're not a photographer!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn
Thats a bit unfair Mel, and I dont find it "amusing."
But *I* do Dawn
A good debate never hurt anyone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody
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On the back of my point about" simply knowing how to work a camera, doesn't make you a good photographer and certainly doesn't guarantee you the perfect picture".
I certainly dont agree with that! Setting up a shot to take the picture to you best ability is what photography is all about!! KNOWING what you are doing, understanding the camera, the settings and what effects they will have has always been to me what its about, not sure where you are coming from on that one Mande?
This would suggest Dawn, that all of your pictures are....well...perfect!
Are all of your pictures perfect Dawn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn
I certainly dont agree with that! Setting up a shot to take the picture to you best ability is what photography is all about!! KNOWING what you are doing, understanding the camera, the settings and what effects they will have has always been to me what its about, not sure where you are coming from on that one Mande?
Are all of your pictures perfect Dawn?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandé Daguerre
Dawn,
I'm a professional broadcast cameraman to trade, and believe me, there is a lot more involved in setting up a broadcast camera, as opposed to an SLR.
I know plenty of other professional camera ops too, all of which know full well how to set up a camera and lights etc for a shoot...but if we were all tasked with filming a certain thing...I don't know, lets say...a day at the zoo...despite each of us being professionally trained camera operators, having full working knowledge of our equipment, I would bet my mortgage on the fact that, some of the shots from one person, would be way better than that of another.
How can this be true, if by going with your suggestion Dawn, that all you simply need, is to know how your camera works, and understand your surroundings?
Why would so many of the shots differ despite us all having the same knowledge??
My point is this...simply knowing how to work a camera and set up a shoot, doesn't actually mean that you're a good photographer. All it means is that you have an understanding of how your kit works, and an idea of what should make a nice photograph.
It's what you then do with this knowledge that makes the picture.
And just to go back to the exif point you made.
If I was hired to do a shoot, be it portrait, weddings, reportagé, sports...whatever...do you really think the client gives a hoot about wether or not the date, time, image size etc is still intact?
I'm a professional broadcast cameraman to trade, and believe me, there is a lot more involved in setting up a broadcast camera, as opposed to an SLR.
I know plenty of other professional camera ops too, all of which know full well how to set up a camera and lights etc for a shoot...but if we were all tasked with filming a certain thing...I don't know, lets say...a day at the zoo...despite each of us being professionally trained camera operators, having full working knowledge of our equipment, I would bet my mortgage on the fact that, some of the shots from one person, would be way better than that of another.
How can this be true, if by going with your suggestion Dawn, that all you simply need, is to know how your camera works, and understand your surroundings?
Why would so many of the shots differ despite us all having the same knowledge??
My point is this...simply knowing how to work a camera and set up a shoot, doesn't actually mean that you're a good photographer. All it means is that you have an understanding of how your kit works, and an idea of what should make a nice photograph.
It's what you then do with this knowledge that makes the picture.
And just to go back to the exif point you made.
If I was hired to do a shoot, be it portrait, weddings, reportagé, sports...whatever...do you really think the client gives a hoot about wether or not the date, time, image size etc is still intact?
BUT who said just knowing how a camera works makes you a good photographer? only YOU! I said IMO taking a good PHOTOGRAPH includes knowing and understand all about the camera, and that things still go wrong.
If you want to keep having a pop at somebody who doesnt agree with you carry on, I dont mind
Re the photograph, the edit has made the dog a completely different colour, if I had a golden coloured dog with dark brown eyes and somebody presented me with a photo of a brindle dog with very light eyes, I be damned annoyed to say the least! if you think what I said an insult then good for you! It wasnt and I used the pictures as an example, Im sorry my wording doesnt meet your standards, but not to worry, much learning to be done hey!
Statements like:
Quote:
For all the PP haters out there...GET USED TO IT !
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[quote=Mandé Daguerre;16601]On the back of my point about" simply knowing how to work a camera, doesn't make you a good photographer and certainly doesn't guarantee you the perfect picture".
I certainly dont agree with that! Setting up a shot to take the picture to you best ability is what photography is all about!! KNOWING what you are doing, understanding the camera, the settings and what effects they will have has always been to me what its about, not sure where you are coming from on that one Mande?
quote]
This would suggest Dawn, that all of your pictures are....well...perfect!
Are all of your pictures perfect Dawn?
It doesnt suggest that at all, you appear to want an argument here, sorry, not falling for that one 
READ what I said, I didnt suggest anything, you did!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn
I certainly dont agree with that! Setting up a shot to take the picture to you best ability is what photography is all about!! KNOWING what you are doing, understanding the camera, the settings and what effects they will have has always been to me what its about, not sure where you are coming from on that one Mande?
quote]
This would suggest Dawn, that all of your pictures are....well...perfect!
Are all of your pictures perfect Dawn?
READ what I said, I didnt suggest anything, you did!
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I don't want an arguement either, so why don't you read the last post again!
I claimed that, by simply knowing how to work a camera doesn't mean that you're a photographer, and certainly doesn't guarantee you the perfect picture.
You began you're answer by saying " I certainly don't agree with that!"
This would suggest that you do indeed believe that simply knowing how to work a camera not only makes you a photographer, but also guarantees you the perfect picture!
It's there in black and white. I'm not making it up, and I'm certainly not looking for an arguement.
And I'm not asking you to fall for anything either!
What a bizarre coment!
I claimed that, by simply knowing how to work a camera doesn't mean that you're a photographer, and certainly doesn't guarantee you the perfect picture.
You began you're answer by saying " I certainly don't agree with that!"
This would suggest that you do indeed believe that simply knowing how to work a camera not only makes you a photographer, but also guarantees you the perfect picture!
It's there in black and white. I'm not making it up, and I'm certainly not looking for an arguement.
And I'm not asking you to fall for anything either!
What a bizarre coment!
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Dawn,
Your original statement
"to me, the art of photography is learning how to take that perfect photo in the first place, not altering everything in an imaging suite then showing the picture".
Statements like:
Quote:
For all the PP haters out there...GET USED TO IT !
can be seen as insultive, and regardless, I dont like PS and never will, if you do, then super!
What about your other statements Dawn?
"if you think what I said an insult then good for you! "
re; my employment
"Congratulations!!"
"If you want to keep having a pop at somebody who doesnt agree with you carry on, I dont mind "
Are these statements considered " insultive " Dawn?
Your original statement
"to me, the art of photography is learning how to take that perfect photo in the first place, not altering everything in an imaging suite then showing the picture".
Statements like:
Quote:
For all the PP haters out there...GET USED TO IT !
can be seen as insultive, and regardless, I dont like PS and never will, if you do, then super!
What about your other statements Dawn?
"if you think what I said an insult then good for you! "
re; my employment
"Congratulations!!"
"If you want to keep having a pop at somebody who doesnt agree with you carry on, I dont mind "
Are these statements considered " insultive " Dawn?
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You seem to make a point of being a camera man, I say again, congratulations!
No insult, its the truth, I mean it, if thats what you thought, fine!
You asked if I thought all my photos were perfect, no, thats why I ask on here for tips, and have stated I need more practise, so I dont make the same mistakes again, are yours perfect mande? If they are, please help us "newbies" (without photoshop please) to understand how to get the most from our cameras in the first place, without the need to alter them, genuinely Id be pleased if you could.
Dawn.
Quote:
if you think what I said an insult then good for you!
You asked if I thought all my photos were perfect, no, thats why I ask on here for tips, and have stated I need more practise, so I dont make the same mistakes again, are yours perfect mande? If they are, please help us "newbies" (without photoshop please) to understand how to get the most from our cameras in the first place, without the need to alter them, genuinely Id be pleased if you could.
Dawn.
