Don't want to offend but as you asked , its out of focus, lack of contrast even for b/w and if made to look old its been overdone.

Now being constructive if I may, if you wish to recreate the look of an old photo have a look at some proper old photos, you will see the difference , ie more of a sepia look , few lines where it may have been folded and a totally different subject matter or at least the way it was photographed. Lastly I don't think the painted finger nail fits in with the effect you are trying to make.

As I said I try to be honest even if I like something or not, Its nothing personal, but I believe in saying what I see not just to please

Bazza

Don't want to offend but as you asked , its out of focus, lack of contrast even for b/w and if made to look old its been overdone.

Now being constructive if I may, if you wish to recreate the look of an old photo have a look at some proper old photos, you will see the difference , ie more of a sepia look , few lines where it may have been folded and a totally different subject matter or at least the way it was photographed. Lastly I don't think the painted finger nail fits in with the effect you are trying to make.

As I said I try to be honest even if I like something or not, Its nothing personal, but I believe in saying what I see not just to please

Bazza

Bazza the original photograph isn't out of focus, it isn't black and white either it is slightly desaturated and then has had several texture layers applied, not to look like an old photograph, just to be this image.

The nails do fit into the effect I was going for, which wasn't an old photograph, I was going for a Gothic feel to the image.

Oh, well each to their own,

MS

Yes everyone to their own, I just can't see what you are actually trying to achieve, maybe i am a bit old fashioned an admit i know nothing about this so called "Gothic" fad that seems to be getting everywhere.

The whole point of taking a photo is first and foremost to please yourself, Second expect that not everyone may like what you have spent time on to achieve.

Some of the great masters of painting like Picasso,who is raved over,I wouldn't give house room to yet his pictures are worth £m's

Bazza

Suzi thinking Bazza's first post was also have a go at my previous post I have looked again to see why it does not work for me and try to give a more constructive comment rather that put it down to my perception.

I am not having another go at you or the image just trying to analyse why I don't like it. It is not the Gothic theme, it is more to do with the treatment.

Do wonder if it may be the fact that the fabric rose does not really look like a rose, lacking definition, I have a hair ornament that looks much like the one you have shot having travelled a fair bit in suitcases.

It could be the treatment you have given it, the overlay of pattern that has over softened the edges of everything, think perhaps the reason I find it neither here or there is the total lack of clarity, perhaps if only the hand or the rose had been treated leaving the other clear, I just don't really know it is a bit of a fog to me both in comprehension and vision.

Some good debate going on.

I guess it boils down to the fact that whilst pictures are subjective 'photography' is shrouded in 'right and wrong' when it comes to technique.

We're so used to looking at magazines where people offer up their efforts only to see them improved in terms of composition, cropping, levels, highlights, dodging, burning, contrast, white balance, lighting, rule of thirds etc etc etc.

Yes there's certain things that have been proven to work best but sometimes (and I've done it) the person creating the shot quite deliberately shuns the accepted rules.

In terms of personal taste (just as a wee example) - I trained and have worked as a illustrator. For years I learned the rules of composition, perspective, isometric, triometric blah blah blah and despite my understanding of what is 'right' or 'wrong' I have bought many paintings to hang on my walls which are (to be honest) technically crap.

Sometimes it's just a case of putting everything to one side and deciding whether or not you like what you're looking at.

...Phew, was worried when I saw the title...knew a girl called Black Rose in a bar in a different life in a different part of the World!

Moonie I think you have a great idea for your pics! Your so soft and sensitive (apart from when you get angry with Bazza!) in your pics...

I'll set you a theme for a laugh... hard rough and tumble

Seriously, I think they are nice pics but probably go down the road Snapper is on. Possibly a little more definition or for me bring back some colour. In black and white the rose is lost a little into soft black shades and the pattern behind a little distracting but I think if you try it in colour it may work?

To be honest it's nice to see people like you and KK experimenting. I know I have been stuck working evenings and weekends to get stuff done and the camera is stuck in it's bag. At least you know how to use your camera and have imagination. I have to wait for something to appear in front of me before the cogs start whirring...

So Phil, are you giving me permission to not like something even though I want to because of who's work it is?

Have to add I was not consciously looking, when I first said I did not like it, for a technical reason . After Bazza's post I felt obliged, to Suzi, to say why I found it totally unappealing, so I looked at it from the point of view of an image of hands holding a rose, I looked at it as a pattern and a design and it still did not appeal so I tried to analyse why.

My second post was to give the only reason I could see as to why I was left cold by it, the reason I thought may be lack of clarity. Not that I am someone who needs to see what something represents, I'm not, abstract art can please me at times and I did wonder if the effect of an even black veil would have worked better but it is not my place to tell the artist how to construct their work but rather mine to try to appreciate it.

do you know what? So long as it remains polite, constructive and civil, if find discussions like this refreshing and useful. I'd much rather read these critiques than those that just seek to please the poster; for that reason I respect bazza and snapper for being open and honest in voicing thier opinions.

Personally, from a technical view and aesthetic view, I like the idea, but not particularly the execution, for many of the reasons already stated. I do however, appreciate the artistic merits and how it would appeal to others - thankfully we all have different tastes, likes & dislikes; let's hope we can learn from each other and be able to post comments with impunity.

I think these images would work better with the introduction of a little complementary/contrasting colour - perhaps in the texturing layers.

You know JR this forum must be unique in that no one is unpleasant for the sake of it, I think that most. like myself, would rather not make comment unless we feel our comments may help. I am unable to offer technical help but I can say it as I see it and hope that when I do it may be of help, it is never ever meant as a put down.

Have to say doesn't do anything for me. Unfortunately though I can't view it here at work and at home (partly due to my computer) there is no definition at all.

Still love your photo's though (can't do a smiley, why do I reply in quick reply instead of just reply???).