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22-04-08, 09:03 PM
#21

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

It's good to make an informed decision tho

I started the thread to highlight the discrepancies in Raw files. Mainly that when you shoot in RAW, and _don't_ use the manufacturers own editing software, there is a big chance those raw files are not carrying through many of the camera settings that you shot with - in other words undoing what you did with the camera to begin with, and expecting you to make changes via the software instead.

So your main options to get the images to a high standard are:
  • Shoot Raw, but use the cameras own software for editing
  • Shoot Raw, but expect to tweak/edit the image, either by creating presets or by editing each one individually
  • Shoot jpeg, and let the camera do most of the work for you - but lose the ability to make changes to the 'raw' data (you can still use photoshop as you normally would, to edit hue/saturation etc).
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22-04-08, 10:03 PM
#22

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

RAW= you can JPEG= you can't

JPEG is a lossy image format, meaning you can't edit then save without losing information/image quality. So, remember that next time you take a stunning picture only to discover you have sensor dust/marks showing on your images.
And, maybe you think it will look better slightly cropped, or there is something else that would look good edited, it will deteriate over time with each image save.

TIFF (Tagged image file format) is a lossless image format, you can edit/save forever it wont lose information/image quality. It's also the image format choice for high quality prints.

Why would you want to shoot a stunning night shot or landscape shot and only have the jpg to show for it, is beyond me. Why have cotton when you can have silk? why have bronze when you can have gold?, why have composite when you can have RGB, or why have mp3 when you can have DAT. Sorry, got a bit carried away there

I find processing RAW files to be very quick and easy and takes no time at all, indeed, lots of my images require very little processing if any at all. And that is all down to the image parameters I have set in camera (and 40d. But sometimes images may require a little - + exposure compensation, or a differant colour tone, or white balance change etc etc to make them stand out a bit better. A jpg just wont cut the mustard.

I think those that find RAW processing to be time consuming and find no differance from an in camera processed jpeg (which can be over processed sometimes, depending on your own image parameters you specify) and prefer instant gratification from a jpg, have probablly not used there camera very much, are stuck on full auto mode and/or just not taken the time to discover understand the benefits of RAW shooting, or there camera for that matter.

PS my last comment is not targetted at beginners, or people new to SLR's, or photogpraphy, by all means shoot in full auto and use jpeg, just don't get stuck in second gear too long
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22-04-08, 10:39 PM
#23

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu View Post
Why would you want to shoot a stunning night shot or landscape shot
and only have the jpg to show for it, is beyond me. Why have cotton when you can have silk?
Spot the difference: Which one was shot in jpeg and which one was shot in Raw?





Can you tell the difference?

Camera was set to shoot in RAW and Large Fine Jpeg.
Jpeg was opened and saved in CS3.
Raw opened in Nikons own software and exported as jpeg.
Both resized to 1290 pixels wide, both saved at highest quality settings.

My point is that for the web, and photos you print for everyday use, you won't really notice a difference should you decide to shoot in jpeg. Unless of course you want to be able to modify image data yourself - in which case you need raw.

Bear in mind that the RAW file was opened and saved in the cameras own software... if you use a third party editing suite then the results will vary, and you may even end up with an inferior photograph if you don't know what you're doing, not to mention the added time required, per photo as well.
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23-04-08, 12:24 AM
#24

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

I think DJ, has not only hit the nail on the head, but has made the point in a far better way than I ever could.

And I don't know how many people print their photos for everyday use Azz....I know I certainly don't.

And the vast majority of my photos so far, have not, and will not, be uploaded to the web.
Eventually I hope to have a decent online portfollio, as well as a hard copy of prints, but I would want both to look the absolute best they can be.

And it's fine to say, spot the difference between these shots, but the problem is, only one of them can be edited further if required, without truely losing image quality.
That would be the one shot in RAW.
What if, in 6months time you decide to go back over some of your old images, and do some funky new editing technique you've just learned. If you've shot everything as Jpegs, then you're pretty much stuck with them, no matter how good or bad you thought they looked at the time

The process I use is
Shoot in RAW
Print as TIFFs
Post on this forum as JPEGs


     
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23-04-08, 12:40 AM
#25

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

The top image is the original RAW file converted to jpg
Of course I'm not going to spot the differance in websized images, better to use 100% crops.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu
Why would you want to shoot a stunning night shot or landscape shot
and only have the jpg to show for it, is beyond me. Why have cotton when you can have silk?

Spot the difference: Which one was shot in jpeg and which one was shot in Raw?
I was not talking about web images Azz, I said that for the reason stated in my post.
Quote:
JPEG is a lossy image format, meaning you can't edit then save without losing information/image quality. So, remember that next time you take a stunning picture only to discover you have sensor dust/marks showing on your images.
And, maybe you think it will look better slightly cropped, or there is something else that would look good edited, it will deteriate over time with each image save.

TIFF (Tagged image file format) is a lossless image format, you can edit/save forever it wont lose information/image quality. It's also the image format choice for high quality prints.
Whether you are shooting for web, small or large print, I still think you should shoot in RAW mode.
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23-04-08, 12:56 AM
#26

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

I was only trying to demonstrate that there's very little difference on this level (at least when using the correct Raw editor for your camera) - unless of course you want to get into editing things quite a bit, where of course RAW offers you the most flexibility.

I guess it's just what floats your boat really I would like to shoot in RAW, but I don't really want to use Nikons software, as I am used to photoshop, and Nikons software isn't as mature or slick. It would be nice to have that flexibility (of raw = cameras own software*) _and_ the ease of use/compatibility (of jpeg = photoshop*)

There isn't a right of wrong decision - but it's good to be informed of the benefits and pitfalls, and how they weigh up against each other...

*for me.
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23-04-08, 08:01 AM
#27

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

OK guys if anybody is willing to send me a copy of lightroom i will give th raw a shot



pretty please
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23-04-08, 01:24 PM
#28

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

Lightroom is not free unfortunately Jols.. although you might be able to download a trial from adobes website

Even then your camera may not be supported - so I would say look to see if there are any raw editors that came with your camera.
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26-04-08, 07:21 PM
#29

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

So many misconseptions about Raw.

The camere always shoots in Raw. You can't turn it off. Jpeg is precessed Raw

You can't view a Raw file. What you see the result of software processing. OEM, Adobes or Gimps interpretation of the camera setting.

A Raw file is the closest you can get to a "digital negative. The only parameters that have impact on Raw are related to exposure. Aperature, shutter, ISO. Note that WB is not a parameter and this is one of the benefits. No matter how wrong you set WB - you can correct it in Raw. Yes you can correct the effects of bad WB later, that is messing with colors and it destroys pixels.

Setting neutral grey point is better done in Raw

Correcting exposure should be done in Raw

If you shoot one frame i Raw and one in JPEG - they look the same. They are both the result of som pretty great software.

You learn an awful lot about ohotographi by learning to understand Raw.

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26-04-08, 08:55 PM
#30

Re: Discrepancies in Raw files?

Thanks for the info Nav
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