No I admit I never went to university , Instead I went to tech college one day a week and night school twice a week on top of doing a 5 day 60 hour week even at the age of 15, spent 5 years doing an apprenticeship and came out with a qualification that was not only practical but with experience as well.

My wife and myself now run and have built up a highly successful business just proving that university education isn't the be all and end all.

Generally I find that those who have been to university may have the knowledge but absolutely none of the social/business skills required to run their own business. All they seem to want is to be sucessful working for others and can't progress any further.

I have come across so many, in the 48 years I have worked and never been out of, that achieve a manageral position and no nothing of what they are supposed to be in charge of, Maybe its because they consider that they are above going back to start at the beginning and actually LEARN what the company is about. Some of the biggest "cockups"(excuse the expression) made today throughout the commercial world is made by university educated people. Take the banking at its present state as an example.

Take a look at your successful business men of today -Sir Richard Branson -Sir Alan Sugar- even the Beckhams or Mr Dyson who invented the Dyson cleaner- just as an example off the top of my head. All self made millionaires and not from university degrees.

University graduates seem to be of the opinion that the world owes them a living. I would challange any university graduate to honestly say that ALL they have learnt is put into every day practice.

Bazza

Going off topic a bit from the original thread but I interview folk on a regular basis and there's pro's and cons to both.

Sometimes a more senior role requires experience but there's times when you want somebody with no 'previous'. Somebody you can 'mould' and teach to work the way you want them to work. When appointing a graduate with little or no experience you at least have the knowledge that the person has already demonstrated the ability to learn and achieve a goal.

Although I hate to say it I totally agree with Bazza!!!!!!

and my answer is from experience not reading it out of a book.

In my professional capacity as Learning Development Advisor for British Forces, Cyprus with a remit for providing advice and support for approximately 6,000 staff at every level, I encounter cynical and one-sided views such as these everyday. Primarily, I add, from people who have never had the opportunity, capacity, or inclination to partake in higher education.

As somebody who has obviously wasted my time working hard to gain degrees (a BA Hons, 1st class, and an MA with distinction) in Post-compulsory Education & Training, and in Education & teaching, I'd like to try and keep my response, respectful, polite and to the point - but I've never read such a load of prejudiced tosh at every level.

Based on the data you have provided, by my reckoning, at the age of 15 you were putting in c.76 hours a week - I'm sorry, I just dont buy that.

With respect, do you seriously think that a degree student (take the context of a photography degree for example) just sits around classrooms for three years and never gains any experience, or never adds considerably to the body of knowledge; which incidentally forms the very foundation of British Industry and subsequently, wealth?

Perhaps, I might suggest you visit your local University so that you may gain an understanding of just what is involved, consequently you may then be able to make a more balanced, better informed post; opposed to one spewing unfounded assumptions based on limited knowledge, and selective reasoning from an uninformed standpoint.

Nobody has claimed that higher education is the be all, and end all - that is a reflection of the prejudiced and patronising views you are obviously so intent on clinging onto.

Opposed to anecdotal opinion and wild speculation, research underpinned by rigorous academic & scientific empirical evidence proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that those who gain a degree (or degrees) - in a relevant field, gain promotion quicker, they hold more senior positions, they contribute on a broader front, they are more creative and disciplined in their problem-solving, they compete more successfully for more sought after jobs, they generally can command a higher starting wage, and it is most likely their comparative earning threshold is significantly higher than non-degree holders. I could continue in a similar vein, but I feel my comments would be falling on deaf ears.

A degree may not be an indication of success; yes it is unquestionably attractive to any potential employer, but it's not a deciding factor. In the end, what really matters is what you do with it. A bachelors, masters or PhD won't guarantee that anything will occur. It's the talent, drive, ambition (and a little bit of luck) that will spur your career; what is wrong with doing a degree if it gives you an obvious advantage?

I make no apologies if my post appears impassioned, but you have touched a raw nerve and at least I consider myself more than 'qualified' to to debunk the myths and monocular assumptions masqueraded in your post as fact.

Polo - do your degree if that's what you want to do - you will then never live to regret not doing it.

I respect everything you say but I still disagree.

I have worked with many uni students while they are studying for degrees and some only do two days a week in uni the rest of the time they are in 'my' work.

Others places I work have employed graduates and they are all theory and no experience.

I know I cant say the same for every student and I only can give comments on my own experience, so that is what i have done.


It is only a difference of opinion nothing earth shattering.

I have seen what having a degree can do to a persons prospects first hand, so I say go for it and if you find it isn't for you, then stop and rethink, but it is much better to have a view of giving every opportunity that comes your way a try Better to try than look back in ten years time wishing you had done something.


The contacts and knowledge as Lorna has explained would be a help too. I have learned so much just from going to a part time photography course these last two months.

I am absolutely for further education in any form. Just choose the subject that you know is in your heart, never what anybody wants you to do xxxx

I married into the armed forces, and know what a great job people like Jack do.

JR

I don't care if you belive me or not I know I tell the truth and thats all that matters. Yes I did work those hours, left home before 6am and tech night classes days didn't see me home till after 10 pm. As I was an apprentice electrical engineer I had to work away from home many times either living out or travelling up with the person I was apprenticed to.

Now it seems impossible but back in the 1960 that is what you had to do.


Typical of those who went from school to university and remained in the education section at work have very little knowledge of what goes on in the real world.

Oh and by the way both my sons have been to university and got first class honours degrees, so I do know the time and effort one has to put in to gain them.

Obviously we are both comming from a different side of the fence, therefore whatever is said there will be some disagreement, therefore I shall not post on this thread anymore


Bazza

A degree in a subject like photography is invaluable - where else would I get to learn to use a cameras that we can only dream of one day owning. People from my course who are graduating in the summer have work placements lined up already, in places like In Style Mag, Vogue, NME, can you tell me that you would have the opportunities for jobs like it? No you don't need a degree to become a wedding photographer or anything like that, but if you want to be the top of your field, you may get lucky, you may not, I'd rather have a qualification and not take that chance.

Also if you have a degree it opens up more doors that it does for those without, unless you want to keep earning under the 20 grand bracket until you've worked your way up the ladder - I know, I've been doing it. Its soul destroying!

Polo, enjoy your degree whatever you choose, it will open up doors that you don't realise are closed.

I haven't read all the thread just very quickly skimmed through it, I'll have a proper read later if I get two mins and may post another reply, so take this as a response to the first post only and maybe some of the others on the first page.

Should you get a degree? If you have the chance, absolutely! So long as it is a respected course/university.

At the end of the day, education will improve your knowledge and intellect - that is priceless, and something you'll be able to put to use in whatever direction you take (either your own business or working for someone else).

When you enter a skilled profession - you need to learn those skills, and the best place is usually uni, or from an expert in that field... the long way round is trying to work it all out for yourself - can it be done? Maybe, but why put yourself through it (when you know the required knowledge can be taught) and risk missing something really invaluable, therefore never really being that good at what you do?

I wouldn't confuse the success of 'some' people in business with anything here. Success measured by what? Making money? (killer instinct/greed) Or Being good at something? (skill/talent)

I think I am correct in saying that photographic degree courses don't just concentrate on the the theory & practice of the art but also deals with the business side of things, selling accounts, publicity, admin, etc.

Bournemouth Uni, which is considered one of the best in the photographic field, is local to myself and I have spoken to a few students over the years and they have all spoken highly of the way the courses are aimed at assisting the student to actually get out into the real world of photography and not the rose tinted image of the business that we amateurs sometimes have

Steve